Possible Thread on begining tanking

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Possible Thread on begining tanking

Post  Glaydrian on Sat Oct 09, 2010 1:55 pm

I am thinking about creating a guide to tanking for the current patch. Since i know everyone has their own tanking style it would be more general information and tips and not specific details such as how you should spec. I would be making a guide for paladins and as i learn about dk's and warriors i would add them. Before i put too much time into this i would like to know a consensus on how everyone would feel about this. (and for tanks already out there i would apreciate any help you would like to give.)

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Sheriff

Post  Thorus Raibead on Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:56 pm

*Sheriff Raibead pokes his head in to make sure everyone here are following the Laws of the Light and the Republic* Oye dat would be a fine idea Lad *nods approvingly*

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Re: Possible Thread on begining tanking

Post  Glaydrian on Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:25 pm

so far i have one "yes" on the matter if i should do this. I would also like to point out that since WoTLK is coming to a close in a few months i will be reading up and playing the ptr a bit to see how tanking in cata will be, so that i can extend the guide into cataclysm as well.

And i know people have been viewing this thread so if you could, even if you aren't a tank, let me know either a yes or no at the very least that would be great. Thank you.

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Re: Possible Thread on begining tanking

Post  Kierie on Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:58 pm

((If you could catalogue what you know about Cat tanking, I would lerv you forever. It seems like they're really screwed up paladin tanking with this expansion.))

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Re: Possible Thread on begining tanking

Post  Glaydrian on Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:29 pm

as of now i know very little about cata tanking since i havent been able to find much info on what stats are becoming but i will be trying out different specs and stats on the ptr. and yes as soon as i can get it up here i will. (btw i have been ooc this whole thread)

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as far as...

Post  Clinkclak on Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:43 pm

Kierie wrote:((If you could catalogue what you know about Cat tanking, I would lerv you forever. It seems like they're really screwed up paladin tanking with this expansion.))

As far as i can tell tanking in beta has changed alot as far as stats way i understand it... i'll pop in beta later see if i can't see tanking gear and maybe list what some of tank gear has on it. I've did 1 dungeon so far with a bear druid and still felt very much " wrathy" but give you some insight.

First dungeon i did was " vortex pentacle" its in uldum and considered easiest of new dungeons. For most part CC isn't needed here alot of AOE this or stay out of the fire but...is one area comes drastically to mind where i still dunno how we survived. Are mobs in this area dragonkin that will use greater heal while throwing out lightning as far as i can tell they have no " mana " or have so much never run out. They can and will heal for 50-80% of there life pool and in most packs are two of them. Now combine this with 3 melee mobs and have a really annoying pack to deal with NOW thats not half of it! also in each section with these mobs is a " barrior " or field that absorbs spell damage...so MUST pull them out of this barrior OR if mostly melee can pull them into field as i believe it will also buff you. Idea of course is to CC both healers and pull melee from field and burn the 3 melee and then each of the adds...my group didn't do this and some how we managed to down the healers(i think do to warrior reducing there heals). So as far as actual tanking goes tactics are important but i never felt threatened while doing this dungeon and i fully expect it to get buffed in near future to some extent as its to easy BUT you can see...current tactics are gone.

As far as gearing i'll check into it and see what i can find.

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from beta forums...

Post  Clinkclak on Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:51 pm

Direct post from beta forums can see basic changes here.

General:

- Crit immunity and non-tank specs:

Q u o t e:
With the higher health pools, a non-Protection / Blood / Feral should be able to tank most non-heroic dungeons. You'll get crit, but the crits won't kill you. In fact, that is more reason to keep crit immunity to the dedicated tanks.



- Taunt is now (presumably) on the melee hit table and does not miss with 8% Hit. See post 169 for more details.

All classes:

- The -AP debuff is now a flat -10% damage reduction. DKs got one as well now.
- Thunderclap effects appear to be unchanged, and still reduces attack speed by 20%. However Thunderlap itself got it's debuff duration lowered to 10 seconds.
- Crit reduction from tanking stances is now implemented: DKs get it for free in Frost Presence, Druids still from SotF, Paladins through Holy Shield talent and Warriors from Safeguard. These talents now properly give you Daze immunity.
- Two tanking classes can now apply the major armor debuff: Warriors with Sunder Armor and Druids with Fairire Fire. In addition to this Hunters can apply this now as well at base (no special pet required).
- +Health raid buffs are gone. Commanding Shout and Blood Pact now emulate Prayer of Fortitude.
- The On Next Swing specials (Heroic Strike, Maul and Runestrike) were changed to Instant attacks that are on the GCD and incur the GCD.
- Block now reduces 30% of the swing properly
- Parry is now 50% damage reduction for 2 swings. [BUG?] However it is still full avoidance on mob specials (like Cleave). Dodge, Miss and Crit Block all affect your Parry chance negatively. Not only can a Parry roll be overwritten by these, it even affects BOTH Parry rolls. Also, a slow hitting mob or one that casts inbetween the 2 Parry rolls will negate the 2nd Parry because you are only guaranteed a 2nd Parry ~3 sec after the first Parry. (See post 88 for further details)
- Stoneskin and Devotion Aura do not stack anymore.
- Defense from gear is gone now without any sort of compensation. Defense from enchants and gems are unaffected though.
- Bonus armor got lowered by A LOT. ILVL 270 epic shields lost around 1.4k armor and some items like the Organ lost ALL of their armor. However a blue ILVL 277 shield which should have lower armor than the epic 270 shield has 1.3k more armor more, so it is possible that this a bug.

Druids:

- Maul is now functional
- [Bug?] Swipe is hitting for alot less than on live.
- FF now emulates Sunder Armor
- Lost alot of AP due to the WotLK tanking gear being just having Agi and no more +AP.
- Thrash is available but the Swipe synergy is not yet included.
- Improved Leader of the Pack is now 4%/8% healing as well as the 4%/8% mana restore for the Feral but based on the wording it may no longer provide healing to anyone else.
- Savage Defense is now a 50% chance on Critical Strike to put up a shield worth 75% of our total Attack Power.
- My combat forms cost 174 at lvl 80 now, without any talents spent.
- [Bug] Dire Bear Form is gone for me, but this might be because I logged out in Dire Bear Form during the patch. Need confirmation from others since all my Druid has got right now is the old Bear Form.

Paladins:

- [Bug] SoV does not apply a dot.
- BoSanc is now passive.
- Divine Intervention is gone.
- Divine Plea is still there.
- Forebearance is still there.

Death Knights:

- Rune abilities hit harder but recharge alot slower.
- Rune Strike damage increase (200% Weapon damage plus X)
- DnD has it's cost lowered to 1 Blood Rune and damage lowered to 1/3rd.
- Blood Presence is the new tanking presence now. Frost Presence the DPS presence. There are no changes between live Frost Presence and alpha Blood Presence except for the name (armor, health mods etc are the same).
- Bone Shield is now in the Blood tree and increases all damage done by 2% while it's up. Oddly enough Acclimation and Magic Suppression/AMZ are still as deep in their respective trees as they are on live; that is, they are out of reach of Blood tanks.
- The DK Demo is now ingame: Hemorrhagic Fever. 10% damage reduction for 30 secs, applied through Blood Boil. Talented.
- Icy Touch is 20% speed reduction at base.
- Talents boost Blood Boil damage by +45% damage. I believe it was only 30% on live.
- IBF is 60% damage reduction talented with no RP cost (30% reduction, 20 RP cost if not)
- VB and BS still cost runes (!($/!$@) Sad
- Improved Blood Presence talent makes you crit immune and let's you retain 4% damage reduction in the other 2 presences. The self-healing component from live Blood Presence is gone completely.
- Improved Death Strike is now +75% healing for a total of 17.5% healing of your max health with 2 diseases (up from 15% with 2 diseases)
- Veteran of the Third War is now +9% Stamina and +6 Expertise.
- Will of the Necropolis: The 15 second ICD is back; 25% damage reduction for swings that take you below 30% health for 8 seconds after the proc. In addition proccing WotN gives you a Blood Rune and refreshes Rune Tap. This is probably to counter the fact that VB still costs a friggin Rune. Then again, it makes more sense to use Rune Tap instead. So what's the big idea on Rune costs on cooldowns? D:
- Dancing Rune Weapon now gives +20% Parry while active in addition to it's old effect. That's pretty frikkin sweet. 60 RP cost.
- Hysteria is gone. A weaker version, called Unholy Frenzy (changed to +10% haste), is now to be found in the Unholy tree. It's only in the 3rd tier so tanks might be able to grab it.
- DnD now costs 1 Unholy Rune instead of a Blood Rune. Morbidity is now 4th tier Unholy which means tanks probably can't grab it anymore.
- New talent to make AoE tanking easier: Whenever you Plague Strike on a target that already has Blood Plague, your next Blood Boil will cost no Rune. Basically you are trading one Unholy Rune for a Blood Rune for AoE purposes. The buff you gain is called Blood Swarm and lasts 9 seconds. Let's hope that makes up for moving Morbidity out of easy reach.
- Heart Strike redesigned: 130% weapon damage on primary target, -25% damage on every target past the first for a maximum of 3 targets total. 10% additional damage for every disease that's up.
- Blood Worms redesigned: It now spawns 1 worm that grows larger the more damage it does. It health also increases and it gains a Blood Gorged buff. Presumably once it stacks to 10 they explode and heal everyone around them for 30% of their health but mine died before I could test that. Talent seems buggy. Sometimes they die and give you 10% of their health which is around 1.2k regardless of Blood Gorged stacks. Sometimes they also disappear without healing at all. Confusing. <_<
- Blood Gorged is gone.
- New Frost Talent: 40% chance to refresh a random depleted Rune whenever we Rune Strike or Death Coil (and Frost Strike but that's not important for tanks)
- Anticipation (5% dodge) is gone.
- Rune Strike damage seems fixed now, getting 4k hits without any Vengeance in BP.
- Diseases can now be talented up to 45 sec duration (Epidemic is now a 5 pointer which gives 3 sec duration per point).
- Veteran of the Third War is now providing 9% Sta, up from 6%.
- IBF still does not work if you are silenced.

Warrior:

- Shield Slam damage is now AP based and the highest damage ability Warriors have.
- Shield Block now only increase block chance by 100% but does not change the amount blocked.
- Shield Wall and Last Stand still on 5 and 3 mins CD respectively
- Mocking Blow appears to be gone.
- Thunder Clap doesn't seem to scale. With anything. (300 damage hits and 600 crits with ~14k AP; addendum: this might be related to Vengeance being broken)
- [Bug] Thunder Clap still not usable when silenced.
- Shockwave got it's damage halved. It hits for the same amount as Conc Blow now.
- [Bug] Damage Shield is stil not working even after it got changed to AP scaling.
- Enrage from Fury and Improved Defensive Stance still do not stack.

Are basic changes stuff is still bugged but i think can get an idea on what to expect from each class. Looks like crit immunity is built into certain skills and talents now, and this makes defense skill unneeded now. However seems non-heroics can still be tanked by non-tank specs but probably just have a harder time with those heroics are gonna be tanks only of course more info incoming.

Gear

So checking out paladin pre-made tank stuff i can come to a conclusion that stamina and more stamina is the solution to alot of it. Mastery seems to give more block for paladins at least, and since block is a flat 30% damage reduction now, that can give you a consistent 30% reduction to damage. There are parry and some dodge on the gear but thing stands out most is like " 400 " stamina here " 1200" stamina there... these are just blues so seems your going to benefit almost purely from stamina reducing damage taken and tanking talents that prevent crit or give some inherient damage reductions. I notice a few talents reduce enemy attack speed or give you a DR shield for so many seconds anyway hope this helps somewhat! i think mostly going to see your tanking benefits come from mastery abilities.

Edit: go here for more info if wanna sift through the details and find what folks are saying

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=24702403015&sid=2000&pageNo=1

thats the beta forums tanking thread.

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